rujettinit
252 posts
Jun 25, 2009
1:22 PM
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We had a scary close call at my barn today - I happened unfortunately to have a front row seat. My trainer is trying out a new school horse - the horse is on trial for a week, apparently he comes from a not great situation but he is supposedly quiet and a nice ride. One of the ladies that I am friendly with decided to try him in a lesson, she is a relatively new rider probably about a year and half - she has guts galore though and did a nice job on him - she said he was a little anxious feeling but she made several mistakes jumping and he had no negative reaction at all. So the lesson ends and she decides she will hose him off and then take him for grass ( we don't have grass turnouts so we all hand graze). She is out grazing on nice grassy area, I came out with my horse and we are about 15 feet away from her and another girl about 20 feet away - so our horses are munching away and we are all chatting and she mentions that he wasn't even sure what to do when she walked him to the grass, he was a little uppity but eventually started eating and was okay. About 10 minutes in I look over and I see the horse starting to go down like he is going to roll - I tell her to get him up - don't let him roll -but she was unsure what to do so down he goes - I'm saying to her you have to pull him up -but too late he starts rolling - another lady comes out who has a lot of experience and starts to walk over to help her but too late - the horse pops up and starts bucking , he turns his butt right at her and kicks out and his back hoof comes within an inch if not less of her head- it was so close it was scary - I hear myself saying let him go - which after almost being brain damaged she lets him go and he proceeds to rear and kick and run around me and my horse but basically staying to rear of my horse -He almost ran in to my horse - I let the lead out as much as I can and stand off to the side while still holding him because I figure if he is going to explode I don't want to be in the way but I don't want to just let him go either and create a real problem - my horse was amazing, I was talking to him quietly and calmly the whole time and he was on guard but stayed so calm. Keeping an eye on me but also aware of what was happening behind him. Finally the grooms were able to catch the loose horse - who really was staying by my horse ( herd comfort I"m sure) but rearing and snorting and totally losing it running back and forth. It was so scary but I was so proud of my boy, because he is new I did not know how he would react in that situation but he was great , I amazingly held it together as well although when I walked my horse back in my legs were jelly. He got many hugs, kisses and cookies for sure for holding it together. I don't remember when or where I learned that you cannot let a horse roll while on a lead line but now I know for sure why - What would you all do if you saw that your horse was going to roll, or if they started to roll - I asked this question of a lot of people today so I am interested to see what you all would do??
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krystle09
94 posts
Jun 25, 2009
1:50 PM
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Scarey doesn't begin to cover it. Kudos to you as you are brave, SO glad you and your horse understood eachother through this event. ANother horse I had used to roll occassionally, on the lunge after a groundowrk lesson. SHe would roll, then stand up and shake herself off. She was ok about it. I guess I should have let go .. : (
I had a near bad exper. yesterday as well,..my old horse Vee,..I let him out of his paddock. He was full of himself and walked out and then bucked right near me as he took off into the pasture, about 10 feet away!
Every time he does something like this , my mind is saying,..REHOME!
Hated it!
Marcy
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DixieMom
1074 posts
Jun 25, 2009
4:50 PM
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I never knew that about not letting them roll on a lead line. Is it to keep them from getting tangled? When we ride out in public places and then unsaddle and take them drink, they often want to roll before the ride home. We just stand in front and hold the line out of the way. They roll back and forth, from side to side and have never gotten tangled. They get up, shake, and that is that. I never knew it was a "no-no." Ours do not take off bucking and rearing, though. It sounds like this boy just went a bit nutso over his new found freedom.
Dixie Mom
"The art of riding:
Keeping a horse between you and the ground!"
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brewbren
457 posts
Jun 25, 2009
5:28 PM
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My experience has been similar to DixieMom. We've let our mares roll after a ride. They especially like to roll in the indoor arena, as it tends to be soft, deeper dirt. They roll and then get up and shake. I've seen plenty of other horses roll on a lead line - always with the same result.
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krystle09
95 posts
Jun 25, 2009
5:47 PM
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When Jessie rolled as she did, I was told that when a horse is comfortable with you and feels safe it will roll on lunge. I had always thought that she trsuted me and that as why she was so quick to do what she did.SHe would actuallt roll back and forth on her back, I thought it was the funniest thing and it was normally after a hose down. I suppose it could be dangerous though,...gosh, never considered that...
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rujettinit
253 posts
Jun 25, 2009
7:25 PM
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I was taught never to let a horse roll on a lead line - I am not sure about lunge lines as they are longer and if they get up and kick out you can be out of the way. I think the reasoning behind it is that they could get tangled and then freak out because they are tangled, or because of what happened today - a lot of horses I have seen have a little buck and run after a roll - I think it really depends on the horse - if your horse gets up and shakes then I guess you just keep the line out of their way and that is fine - I know my TB always has a buck and a run after a roll. I think if you know your horse/mule is fine then it is not a problem - I think the bigger issue with this horse is that he really has not been taught any manners consistently and the lady that was with him is never thinking that anything can go wrong which is lucky for her but also not great , as we all know sometimes that fear helps you to see around the corners of what could go wrong so you act in a way that helps proactively prevent that. He actually tried to kick her - which is too scary, it was awful. Maybe the difference is an east / west thing I don't know , and like I said I can't remember who taught me or why it was just a "no-no" everyone I asked in my barn said something to the effect of, " don't let them get down to roll at all" and one actually said," if my horse got down to roll while on a lead line I would drop the lead and run away" ( she is a funny lady and very cautious- that one may be a little extreme but she is great). The lead line I am talking about it about 6 to 8 feet long so it is a little hard to get out of the way if you have to. Oh well , interesting!!!
Krystal I did want to address one thing that you said about your horse running off from you in turnout - when you turn him out do you turn him towards you and make him stand facing you before you let him go?? I never let a horse go into turnout or stall without turning them around to face me so in effect they are facing me and I get a safe exit and then if they want to run and kick up heels have fun - One girl got double barreled in the chest when she put her horse in his stall by just opening the door and letting him walk in - to this day no one knows what set him off but as he walked by he kicked out and both of his feet got her in chest - she was severely injured, it was awful. I am sure that Dixie would have a good training method to turning out safely so you don't get kicked. Thanks for the responses I am interested if anyone has been taught like me to not let a horse roll on lead line??
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cckiger
156 posts
Jun 25, 2009
9:45 PM
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I wouldn't let my horse roll on the lead, though I know people who do. My feeling is he can do that on his own time. When with me he needs to pay attention to me and stand where I ask. I also don't hand feed him treats and in his case I don't even hand graze him. He needs lots of structure though. I don't know that every horse needs to be treated like this. I'm more lax with my old mare.
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LC
216 posts
Jun 26, 2009
3:33 AM
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I must admit it's not something I've never heard of either.
I can't say that Zack has ever done it when on either a lead rope or a lunge line though so the question of wether to allow it or not has never cropped up.
I will say though that since the kicking incident I dont allow him to graze in hand any more.
I dont think I will ever again think that walking him out in hand is the easier or safer option to riding him. I think, in his head, that being ridden is 'work' and he is (mostly!) fairly obliging, whereas walking out he see's as playing/eating/do what you want time and the last time I did it I got hurt and he ran off.
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DixieMom
1075 posts
Jun 26, 2009
5:14 AM
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I've always heard that the safest way to turn out is to have them face you toward the gate while you unhalter. Then they aren't as tempted to just tear out to be with their buddies. I don't always do that, but then, I don't let mine tear out, either. They have to lower their heads and tip it toward me to be unhaltered. Then I often have them stand while I have them do a vertical flexion or a lateral flexion just to make sure we are always ending with a good frame of mind. Then I send them out - they get to go out when I tell them - not just rush out as soon as the halter comes off. It's like teaching them to stop at a gate. I never let mine rush through a gate - they wait until I tell them to go through. It's so much safer. Getting run over or squished in a gate is not a happy thought.
We let ours roll after a long hot ride and before they have to get into the trailer for the haul home. Somehow just the thought of standing in the trailer with an itchy back makes ME want to roll. :) But the rolling is only when we give them permission, and then they don't always do it.
I can see if it isn't your own horse and you don't know them well enough to anticipate what they will do, you would not want them to go down on the line. Clearly, that could be dangerous, as we now know.
Mine would never buck and kick out at me after rolling. I can't even imagine that - kicking us is absolutely NOT an option - they would sooner die than kick us cuz they know they WOULD probably die if they did! We eliminated that idea long ago, but again, that is because they know the rules. A barn horse wouldn't necessarily behave the same way with everyone.
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Dixie Mom
"The art of riding:
Keeping a horse between you and the ground!"
Last Edited on 26-Jun-2009 6:13 AM
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Determined
472 posts
Jun 26, 2009
8:43 AM
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My first horse I always used to walk in the ring after his bath, and he always went down to roll in the sand. It was only on a lead line. I knew nothing about horses at the time (only THOUGHT I did!), but he never did anything untoward at all. Just rolled from side to side. I stood as far away as the lead allowed and held the lead so that it didn't get tangled in his feet. When he was done, he stood up, shook off, and that was it.
I've seen Wish roll in the field and when he is done, he just stands up and shakes off. I cannot imagine he would do differently on the lead line.
I guess I would be more cautious with a horse I didn't know. You all were so lucky.
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ladyinblack792
339 posts
Jun 26, 2009
10:50 AM
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Chance has only rolled on a lead or longe with me a handful of times. He will give clear cues and wait for me to move away (usually to the end of my lead- which is a rope halter lead/ or longe line) Then he'll drop and roll. He's only bucked once after rolling and shaking himself off. A quick "Knock it off!" and he pulled the "ok mom." I don't recollect any one ever telling me not to allow a horse to roll on a lead or longe (other than after getting a bath)
I have also been told that when a horse rolls with you holding a line they are comfortable with you.
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Poeta
473 posts
Jun 26, 2009
1:12 PM
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I don't agree with allowing a horse to roll while on a leadline or lungeline for the same reason I don't graze my horses on a line. Work is work. It would be the same as laying down in a classroom, not to mention risks such as tangling up or jumping up bucking.
Sounds like you and your horse did a good job keeping it together!
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rujettinit
255 posts
Jun 26, 2009
2:32 PM
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I agree Poeta I would rather not have to hand graze but we don't have grass turnouts , so if I don't hand graze they don't get grass. It does bring up some dangerous issues though ( as is evidenced by this post), I have to really work on making sure they respect my space and I have to be able to keep them calm if someone else's horse goes nuts - so it is certainly not ideal, but the alternative is no grass. My new horse actually gets crazy with the horse flies and he is a big boy so I am very conscious when I am grazing him, if the flies start biting - in we go.
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krystle09
98 posts
Jun 26, 2009
7:06 PM
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Rujett'
You know, if he is going to bolt, he would spin right around and run off, doing the same thing. ( for an old boy he is really something). I am afraid of that,and so i do not do it. WHen he goes into his paddock from the pasture, he just walks in and I close the gate behind him. For a long time, he had to have his halter on before he could come out and was taught to stand with his head over the gate to have the halter put on him. But when he is going out to pasture for the day I never halter him. I don't know,...you know, I just have this fear of the bolting, and I am not so sure that having him face me is a good idea, sometimes he explodes, you know?
marcy
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Poeta
481 posts
Jul 01, 2009
12:22 PM
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Perhaps try a special halter and leadrope that is only worn when he is grazing. That way your horse learns the difference.
Marcy, do you know of a trainer who can help you address the bolting in hand issue? It is a pretty tricky one to fix. Always wear gloves when leading, use a soft cotton leadline (preferrably thick), and make sure to never ever loop your rope (don't hold it like a lasso).
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krystle09
102 posts
Jul 01, 2009
3:23 PM
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Poeta,
He doesn't bolt in hand, but coming out of the gaate to go to the pasture he can,..and then he won't for days, and then once again he will. If he is led out to pasture on lead, he won't, not usually. He is a little spooky and a ' I'll click my heels in your face' kind of guy sometimes which I don't like. I never know when he is going to do it.
Trainers charge alot of money here, Ocala area is that way. Trying to find someone to work with you on the ground at your place is real tough. I just need a little help.
Marcy
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Poeta
482 posts
Jul 01, 2009
6:02 PM
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Ocala probably has as many trainers as they have horses!That's tough...
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cckiger
160 posts
Jul 02, 2009
5:51 AM
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Others may not agree with this (and I understand their point)-and I know Poeta is a great trainer and may not agree(maybe she would?)-but I consider the human's safety extremely important and if the horse can run off in a dangerous and/or disrespectrul manner, I would use something more harsh in the way of a halter just to be sure it doesn't happen, maybe even 2 halters and after the first one is dropped be ready with the second one if the horse tries to charge away. Rope halters have quite a bit of bite. I have a Dually halter which I'm finding useful. I have even used a chain, which I hate, but my horse needs to earn a gentle halter at this point, because he has pulled away and run off in a disrespectful way. Sounds mean but one nick with a leg could do some damage.
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krystle09
103 posts
Jul 02, 2009
11:23 AM
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I have always used rope halters, they are a great tool.
Marcy
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Poeta
483 posts
Jul 02, 2009
7:31 PM
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I agree with you cckiger. With a horse who bolts inhand, I may opt to use a stud train inter woven over the noseband and latched at the cheek, or perhaps under the chin. The important thing is to give the horse light bumps while walking him so he is aware it is there. the stud chain is a tool not accepted as routine. It is to be used to help manage a problem til we are able to correct the problem, then it goes away.
I also agree with the double halter technique--- works especially well for the horse that does well until you remove the halter.
I also will sometimes use a long lead line and then snub the end of it around a pole near the gate so if the horse takes off the pole will stop him. The tricky thing with that is, if you don't know what you are doing--- it is easy to get hurt.
A lunge whip is good as well.
One nice easy approach to teach a horse self control is at feeding time. Put his grain in a feed pan but make him stand back and wait. He doesn't even have to have a halter or leadrope on--- you will need a lunge whip however or a long leadrope to toss at him should he try to approach the feed. Once he is standing quietly, then tell him, "You may" and step back. If he approaches rude, start the process over. He may only eat if he approaches like a gentleman. This should transfer over to other areas as well such as unhaltering.
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BooBoo
1 post
Jul 06, 2009
3:03 PM
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I have a brand new 4 year old. On my first ride this past weekend, my horse stopped, stomped, and rolled with me on his back. I rode him down, then got one leg caught under his as he is trying to roll all the way over. Another rider jumped off their horse and got him up. Now I am scared to ride him. Any suggestions.
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PB
846 posts
Jul 06, 2009
5:07 PM
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Hi BooBoo,
Welcome to the board. You have come to the right place to heal your spirit and love of horses.
Can you give us a little more background? About yourself, your riding abilities. Your horse, how long youve had him. What his background is. You can start a new thread for your own.
Again welcome!!
PB
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